Author Topic: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"  (Read 9472 times)

aimc

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2015, 07:54:24 AM »
I only want to address the supposed "personality change" issue about DM: He is probably having PTSD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder)

With that in mind, he also seems to be depressed by the fact his Cloth abandoned him. It's akin to a friend leaving you because you've been an idiot. Those type of events make you try to be a better person. That's why his sadistic persona "disappeared" (although he could be suppresing it for the time being). His PTSD explains his addictive behaviour to alcohol and gambling, and the Cloth abandoning him explains his intent to be a nice person (forcefully) to Helena.


pd: i'm not a psychologyst of any sort. Just watch the series and have common sense.

Seiya

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2015, 08:26:37 AM »
That was a very deep thought aimc. I really like where are you going with this, I just hope that TOEI does have such plans but only time will tell. :)

SageofTime

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2015, 10:20:55 AM »
I only want to address the supposed "personality change" issue about DM: He is probably having PTSD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder)

With that in mind, he also seems to be depressed by the fact his Cloth abandoned him. It's akin to a friend leaving you because you've been an idiot. Those type of events make you try to be a better person. That's why his sadistic persona "disappeared" (although he could be suppresing it for the time being). His PTSD explains his addictive behaviour to alcohol and gambling, and the Cloth abandoning him explains his intent to be a nice person (forcefully) to Helena.


pd: i'm not a psychologyst of any sort. Just watch the series and have common sense.
PTSD is when someone who came back from war and they had a tramatic experience like almost getting killed and they are always worried that someone is out to get them so they are on high alert most of time. I am no expert in PTSD either but that is what I heard about what that it is.

Paradox

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2015, 10:24:15 AM »
I think most evil saints after being tortured by the spectres would prefer becoming good and turn to Athena for redemption.

Niello

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #64 on: May 26, 2015, 05:42:54 AM »
I only want to address the supposed "personality change" issue about DM: He is probably having PTSD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder)

With that in mind, he also seems to be depressed by the fact his Cloth abandoned him. It's akin to a friend leaving you because you've been an idiot. Those type of events make you try to be a better person. That's why his sadistic persona "disappeared" (although he could be suppresing it for the time being). His PTSD explains his addictive behaviour to alcohol and gambling, and the Cloth abandoning him explains his intent to be a nice person (forcefully) to Helena.


pd: i'm not a psychologyst of any sort. Just watch the series and have common sense.

I really like your thinking, don't think it would get any sort of in depth coverage but they might glance over it.

Albafika

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #65 on: May 26, 2015, 08:03:09 PM »
I agree when y'all say Death Mask's personality shift seems odd and forced, because he truly was evil and a coward, he killed women and children just for fun, there's nothing between his death and his resurrection that's warranted this change of heart.

I absolutely have to disagree with Aphrodite though, this is the Saint he's ALWAYS been.

Aphrodite knew Saga wasn't in fact Pope Shion, and I have a sinking feeling his mind-reading abilities are the reason he figured it out, perhaps he senses the roses leading to the Pope's sanctum tell him his true identiy. We've known Saga told DM and Shura was manipulated through the Episode G, but Aphrodite's always  just known. Now in Saintia Shô it is explained why he follows Saga. For Aphrodite, the most important element is power, and why? Because power represents the strenght to defend the Earth, he explains a young Saori he will not follow her unless she proves herself strong enough to lead the sanctuary because he cannot follow a leader that's not strong enough to protect the people of the Earth, and she understands.

He's always been vain, sure, perhaps narcissistic, and that hasn't changed here, but the core of who he is, someone focused entirely on Victorty for the sake of the people, is unchanged. In the Episode G as well he explains beauty is power to him, and that's what's most important, the power to protect what he believes, he even gives part of his cosmos to protect and heal Aiolia and give him a second chance at his mission because he believes Aiolia is fighting to protect the Sanctuary. He will do anything to protect it and the world, even if it means becoming  a traitor.

Even in the original animé he does an excellent job at explaining his position to Shun. He tells him he's just naive and incapable of comprehending from real good and evil, his actions have always been crystal clear.


AriesMu188

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2015, 11:19:07 PM »
I agree when y'all say Death Mask's personality shift seems odd and forced, because he truly was evil and a coward, he killed women and children just for fun, there's nothing between his death and his resurrection that's warranted this change of heart.

Not really, his justification was that he's like a bomb, a bomb don't discriminate who to kill. Only when Shiryu push him on his shit when he really got crazy...

Not saying I would ever forgive him for his shit but I got no problem after a *second* resurrection, we get to see a different side...

Paradox

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #67 on: May 27, 2015, 01:17:04 AM »
I can't imagine the canon Deathmask to do anything for love, but he did help athena and the other 11 saints to destroy the wall

Reikyavic

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2015, 12:51:14 PM »
I'm just gonna "thumbs up" for ep 4. Gotta admit that at times the animation looked kinda weird, gross even (scene with Saga... what on earth was happening to his face?), but I think that the writing made up the most of it.

I think it's nice to see Saga as obviously good from the get go, rocking his effin righteousness and badass. For that reason I need to get this out of my mind: I'm gonna be disappointed if they're gonna make him slip into his evil mode for the sake of old times and "that's how people remember him: as imposter pope and ostensible surplice wearing traitor beyond grave, right?". Now, I'm not pitying Saga, he is not among my top favorites but I do think he deserves better. You know, I'd just want to see the side of him which is implied to be genuinely awesome, saint among saints, the side which people generally, in universe, liked and which made Shion's decision of who to name his successor quite hard because Saga and Aiolos were seemingly so damn equal. Of course some things Saga has done are nigh if indeed unforgivable, and on the other hand it's be interesting to see how other characters have dealt or are dealing with their possible lingering feelings of antipathy for him, but I'd leave all that gladly as secondary focus from the way of giving Saga chance to prove everyone that he has deserved his redemption.

Speaking of Aiolos, I think I'm going to, after this episode, wait more eagerly to see him and Saga just interact or some shit like that because I just... want to see that happens now I guess? Just a thought. I mean, It's probably gonna happen, but I guess this episode went and sparked my interest in seeing that actually happen. They have interesting history, which isn't all about hate and betrayal, and I'm just sucker for that kind of stuff.

I'm feeling all impressed by Deathmask, again. Acting all drunk and ruffian, but secretly helping people for sentimental, soft reasons. And what's more, he seemed genuinely distressed to learn that the Helena girl is gone. Knowing Deathmask has, like, arguably killed people for no reason in past, this kind of things give us very different view of him, and reason to question his past presentation. Which is nice, because I've never cared his earlier presentations much - not because he was evil but because he was flat. While I agree that Deathmask from latest episode was quite different, I also think that the length of the series poses limitations how much time they can put on delivering character growth, and the fact is that unchanged Deathmask might not have worked all that well for the story.  It was very nice detail to address Cancer cloth's abandonment of him. There is just something spectacular in contrasting his past and present self so subtly; Deathmask which, again, arguably murdered people just because he could, and Deathmask which shows feelings of concern towards Helena and Aphrodite, and remorse over his actions for his cloth. We just don't know what has really happened to him since his death, but I'm willing to bet that his bad guy show at the beginning of the Hades arc was just that, show, much like every other resurrected gold saint was putting on a show. I feel like I'm repeating myself but I always felt underwhelmed how Saga and Shura had their moment of redeption, but same can't be said about Deathmask and Aphrodite.
At least, I suppose dying twice might have some effect on people and how they view others and themselves.

And holy smokes, I think I need to start fangirling over Aphrodite more. He has always suffered from one-dimensional presentation like Deathmask, in my opinion. It makes me happy that soul of gold is making effort to portray them better. Dunno why, but I'm getting just generally better feeling about him from SOG than any other of his incarnation. Dunno if that's sad or what. Aphrodite has still that vain streak in him, which I very much prefer, but for the first time he seems more noteworthy and likeable character, no less badass than the other golds.

Also, finally, cheers for return of Lyfia's evil eyes. She was looking at that three or something so I guess that must be the gist of it then. There is something unfortunate between her and the tree. Yet, gotta keep on believing in good lady Hilda, according to her Lyfia is still "the only one who can save Asgard".
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Niello

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #69 on: May 30, 2015, 09:22:08 AM »
Of course some things Saga has done are nigh if indeed unforgivable, and on the other hand it's be interesting to see how other characters have dealt or are dealing with their possible lingering feelings of antipathy for him, but I'd leave all that gladly as secondary focus from the way of giving Saga chance to prove everyone that he has deserved his redemption.

I think it would be better if they decided to make that part the main focus of Saga's character development. Not only would it emphasise his struggles, but also compliment whatever chance he would get at proving himself extremely well. It is (to me at the very least) what made his character so compelling in the Hades arc. For the still-alive saints to feel like he has betrayed them means that , at the time, they had already harbour a thought somewhat alike to some sort of recognition (judging from Milo excessive hostility Kanon didn't even have that, unsurprisingly). After all he's supposed to be some sort of a role model for those characters if things hadn't gone wrong.

Whenever he appear he always had to act differently from how he wanted to. When it come to the 'core' of his character it doesn't whether he's in a good or evil mode, the guy always prioritise his duty over everthing else even his personal feelings. In his good side he's determined to do what he can for the good of the people around his (according to the flash back), with the evil spirit he still determine to do whatever it takes to protect the Earth from the gods, and as a spectre it's because it's what he could still do to help.

In any case if they somehow decide to make the lingering feelings toward the misdeeds he did in the past a main part of his chemistry with other characters, then more likely than not it's going to end up as something more meaningful. :)

tuhis

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #70 on: May 30, 2015, 09:39:22 AM »
I'm still fangirling blindly over Aphrodite, as he's originally Swedish and is now in an environment where he likely understands the language better than the other Goldies.


Janet

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2015, 04:35:16 PM »
I still don't like the interaction between Lyfia and Aiori, Toei is trying to much << But on the other hand it was adorable how Deathmask cared so much about Helena.. I got the vibe he had a crush on her but sadly she died :(

Reikyavic

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2015, 10:56:23 AM »
Whenever he appear he always had to act differently from how he wanted to.

I think that's very well said!

Though I wouldn't describe his evil persona's ambition so highly; if he had succeeded he would have definitely become thing he was mindlessly determined to protect the world from. But this is purely question of wording things out differently, so irrelevant.

As said, Saga  is not one of my favourites, but I've always liked that I could find key elements of classical greek tragedy within his character arc: Someone of high status is brought low by their actions (murdering Shion and framing Aiolos arguably brought him greater power, but in the end it was also his first step on road to ruin), which do not necessarily have to bad or evil (well, in Saga's case they kinda are...) or even their own fault (I think this occurs, since the question how much we can keep "good" persona responsible of "bad" persona's actions is as interesting as it is blurry). And then, upon becoming aware of his crime they fall in violent yet impotent remorse ("good" Saga tried to paid for his crime by taking his, and thus his "evil" persona's life). I don't know if that is intentional or not, but it's neat.

I wouldn't mind if writers would find good way to address Saga's history and it's possible relevance to present, without making it too complicated of course, because I feel they just do not have too much time to focus on supporting character's in series development.

I still don't like the interaction between Lyfia and Aiori, Toei is trying to much << But on the other hand it was adorable how Deathmask cared so much about Helena.. I got the vibe he had a crush on her but sadly she died :(

I gotta agree. I do not even dislike Lyfia alone but way her's and Aiolis' interaction is written just feels superimposed.
I have tried to compare Aiolia to Seiya in this, as main character and how he is written to act with "love interest", and I have come to this conclusion: Though Seiya has had short and ambiguously romantic moments with few girls, they were all subtle and infrequently happening enough to not become banal. Even Aiolia himself had some similar moments with Marin in original anime.

I feel like making Lyfia this obvious shipping bait deflates her character. At least I feel less and less interested to focus on her personality and intentions because alarming amount of her screentime goes hinting to that hollow romantic tension between her and Aiolia.
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Ares666

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Re: SOG Ep 4! "Gather! The 7 God Warriors!!"
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2015, 04:00:15 PM »
I still don't like the interaction between Lyfia and Aiori, Toei is trying to much << But on the other hand it was adorable how Deathmask cared so much about Helena.. I got the vibe he had a crush on her but sadly she died :(

I don't like Lyfia much either, she's too good to be true, and given her personality changes every now and then... she's using Aioria. It wouldn't surprise me, if Andreas turns out to be the deuteragonist (sometimes an Anti-hero, good or bad depending on their own personal goals) while Lyfia ends out the Tritagonist (acts as the instigator or cause of the sufferings of the protagonist).