Author Topic: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies  (Read 4835 times)

SSfa

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Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« on: April 20, 2015, 07:09:04 AM »
During the whole anime, there are some overused phrases and some inaccuracies in regards to the storyline.

It can't be! - This is overused in Hades Saga

Phoenix armor is the only armor capable of self-reconstruction, but it's destroyed and needed to be repaired.

Hyoga builds an ice wall to block Minos but Minos destroys it with a punch.

Hyoga tries to freeze Thanatos, but Thanatos replies that Hyoga would need to go below the absolute zero to freeze him. Below absolute zero?! Btw, isn't Aurara Execution the attack that drops temperature to absolute zero?

Dragon had his arm broken before jumping in the hyperdimension, but he's fine after reaching Elysium.

What happened to Orpheé? The judge said that he was sent to Cocyto but he isn't seen there during the Pegasus fight and gold saint's ressurrection.

Athena says "I swear by god", but WTF? Isn't that a christan statement? And a god swearing to a god?

Shaka is the man closest to God. But he follows budism and "closest to God" sounds christian. It's also weird when the enemies are the Greek Gods.

Is Elysium part of hell? It's completely the opposite of hell, full of light and devoid of all suffering and pain, is Hades the creator of that?

Shion repairs the bronze armors using the blood of Athena, but when they go to Elysium they make a WTF face "Athena's blood in our cloths???" like they didn't know it.

When Siegfried explains his weakness to Pegasus, he says that his left arm lowers for 0.001 x 10 ~ 0.001 x 100 seconds. But if he wanted to say that his arm lowers for a much shorter time than Dragon's, his speech should have said 0.0001 ~ 0.00001 seconds. Maybe in the original dub he said "1/10th of 0.001..."?

During the last fight with Hades, he alternates between stating that Athena is already dead and nearly dead.

Athena commits suicide to go to the land of the dead, but the bronze saints keep repeating that they cannot let her die while fighting in the underworld.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 08:49:07 AM by SSfa »

aimc

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2015, 02:20:44 PM »
Hi, i might reply to some of the plotholes, not because i defend SS to death but because you might or might not be right:

During the whole anime, there are some overused phrases and some inaccuracies in regards to the storyline.

It can't be! - This is overused in Hades Saga
possibly, yes.


Phoenix armor is the only armor capable of self-reconstruction, but it's destroyed and needed to be repaired.

Maybe in the manga he didn't need his cloth to be repaired. Also sometimes he heals himself and his armor. IDK

Hyoga builds an ice wall to block Minos but Minos destroys it with a punch.

Either 1) Minos is stronger than Gold Saints, that's why he can so easily break the Ice Coffin variation
Or 2) Hyoga's statement is BS, and as he didn't ever use or train that technique, he didn't master it yet, so this was his first lame attempt and failed.

In some sense, 2) is not in direct contradiction to 1)




Hyoga tries to freeze Thanatos, but Thanatos replies that Hyoga would need to go below the absolute zero to freeze him. Below absolute zero?! Btw, isn't Aurara Execution the attack that drops temperature to absolute zero?
The temperature (in K) that Hyoga can reach with AE is 0K (or -273°C).
The temperature needed to freeze Thanatos is -1 K (or -274°C).

At this point, of course, this doesn't have a bit of reality to modern science. No entity can reach 0 K


Dragon had his arm broken before jumping in the hyperdimension, but he's fine after reaching Elysium.
I don't know

What happened to Orpheé? The judge said that he was sent to Cocyto but he isn't seen there during the Pegasus fight and gold saint's ressurrection.
Don't know, but does anybody really know? What happened to Aioros?


Athena says "I swear by god", but WTF? Isn't that a christan statement? And a god swearing to a god?
IDK

Shaka is the man closest to God. But he follows budism and "closest to God" sounds christian. It's also weird when the enemies are the Greek Gods.

Other people say that about Shaka, because most of them are theists, some even christians.
Him being "the man closest to the gods" (which is the statment that appears more frequently in manga if i remember correctly) could be
1) because he knows about arayashiki
2) because his cosmos is similar to a god in magnitude
3) he's somewhat strong but people tend to exaggerate everything



Is Elysium part of hell? It's completely the opposite of hell, full of light and devoid of all suffering and pain, is Hades the creator of that?

Elysium or the Elysian Fields (Ancient Greek: Ἠλύσιον πεδίον, Ēlęsion pedíon) is a conception of the afterlife that developed over time and was maintained by certain Greek religious and philosophical sects and cults. Initially separate from the realm of Hades, admission was reserved for mortals related to the gods and other heroes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elysium

Shion repairs the bronze armors using the blood of Athena, but when they go to Elysium they make a WTF face "Athena's blood in our cloths???" like they didn't know it.
IDK but saints are sometimes very ingenuous..

When Siegfried explains his weakness to Pegasus, he says that his left arm lowers for 0.001 x 10 ~ 0.001 x 100 seconds. But if he wanted to say that his arm lowers for a much shorter time than Dragon's, his speech should have said 0.0001 ~ 0.00001 seconds. Maybe in the original dub he said "1/10th of 0.001..."?
IDK

During the last fight with Hades, he alternates between stating that Athena is already dead and nearly dead.
IDK

Athena commits suicide to go to the land of the dead, but the bronze saints keep repeating that they cannot let her die while fighting in the underworld.

I don't know if i understood the question or plothole correctly: Athena suicided to go to the Underworld alive. She wasn't dead. The semantics and language don't help here, she simply didn't die when she commited suicide, neither do Shaka.
While in the Underworld, if she happened to die there, there is no way to reverse that situation. It would have been a real "death".

Notice that:
- Shaka apparently faked his death and teleported to Underworld
- Aldebaran really died, with his corpse/soul sent to an unknown prison.

GVmanX

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2015, 04:57:46 PM »
Just gonna comment on a few things.

Phoenix armor is the only armor capable of self-reconstruction, but it's destroyed and needed to be repaired.

Must be an anime thing.  I don't remember that in the manga.

Quote
Hyoga tries to freeze Thanatos, but Thanatos replies that Hyoga would need to go below the absolute zero to freeze him. Below absolute zero?! Btw, isn't Aurara Execution the attack that drops temperature to absolute zero?

StS is all about hyperbole, and how can you get more hyperbolic than absolute zero?  You go beyond it.  The laws of physics mean nothing to the gods!  Not even the coldest cold can freeze them! 

Although, if something went beyond absolute zero, wouldn't it do the opposite of freezing?

Quote
Athena says "I swear by god", but WTF? Isn't that a christan statement? And a god swearing to a god?

The anime Saori does this a lot.  There seems to be an assumption in the anime universe that there is a singular god beyond all the other gods.  At least, it seems anime Saori believes that.  She only just recently learned of her divinity, after all.  I would say this sounds like a translation error, but I remember her saying this in some of the anime filler.

Quote
Shaka is the man closest to God. But he follows budism and "closest to God" sounds christian. It's also weird when the enemies are the Greek Gods.

Beats me.  Maybe Kuru views the Saint Seiya world as having one singular god above all the other gods, too; that turn-of-phrase is in the original manga.  At the very least, it sounds cool. 

Niello

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2015, 08:40:49 PM »
Maybe it's about time we revive this thread?

The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread

Seiya

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2015, 11:21:36 PM »

1. Hyoga builds an ice wall to block Minos but Minos destroys it with a punch.

2. Hyoga tries to freeze Thanatos, but Thanatos replies that Hyoga would need to go below the absolute zero to freeze him. Below absolute zero?! Btw, isn't Aurara Execution the attack that drops temperature to absolute zero?

3. Shaka is the man closest to God. But he follows budism and "closest to God" sounds christian. It's also weird when the enemies are the Greek Gods.

4. Is Elysium part of hell? It's completely the opposite of hell, full of light and devoid of all suffering and pain, is Hades the creator of that?

5. Athena commits suicide to go to the land of the dead, but the bronze saints keep repeating that they cannot let her die while fighting in the underworld.

1. Well in the ND don't remember who said it whether it was Shion or Dohko but when Vermeer appeared he said it's a Judge, he is as powerful as three Gold Saints. So technically yes Judges are more powerful than Gold Saints, however Kanon defeated Rhadamanthys with ease and Ikki defeated Aiacos again quite easily. So I think that's a plothole...
Now it could be that Minos is in a whole different level than the other two... he is Minos after all. I don't believe what people say about the Freezing Coffin being inferior to Camus' because in order for it to work it needs a certain temperature or else it just won't happen.

2. He is Thanatos....Death himself, what did you expect? you can't freeze him you can't burn him. :P

3. Dohko already explained that to the Bronze that the only reason he was called the Man Closest to God was because he was the only one that awakened the 8th Sense and since ND tells us that the Virgo Gold Saints have the records of the past and future Holy Wars as well as the knowledge of all the Virgo Saints then that's not a very impressive thing after all.

4. In a way it is, there are two theories about Elysium's location. Some stories say that it is an island far in the western region while others say it is a different realm in the Underworld. But the concept of "Heaven" is different. Only great heroes, demigods and people chosen by Gods can go in Elysium. It doesn't matter if you are a nice person...you still won't go there unless you were exceptional in life etc etc.

5. Because Dohko told the Bronze that she wasn't dead that's what Shion was trying to tell them before he disappears. Athena never died...it was all a trick....she is the Goddess of Strategic War after all.

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2015, 01:28:35 AM »
1. let's get one thing straight, minos is not the strongest of the judges.

the freezing technique that hyouga used WAS NOT THE FREEZING COFFIN. it was a variation or modified version of it. hyouga was nowhere near a gold saint's level when he fought minos at the time, so minos punching thru a sheet of paper makes him the strongest?

this is the case of hyouga overestimating himself. just because you can use your teacher's technique doesn't mean you can use it as the same level as he was, or as powerful as he was. as a matter of fact, how can you call a variation or modified technique, the original?

not plothole, not inconsistency. just cockiness.

Source: http://s124.photobucket.com/user/raigami/media/Saint-14-0298_zps65ac4bd7.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10

2. the phoenix cloth can repair itself. the manga has it that ikki and the cloth healed themselves by sitting in a volcano. all 4 versions of the phoenix cloth, never needed outside help to repair itself. even the final hades chapter version was repair and evolved on its own. only exception is the god cloth, it needed Athena blood.

3. thanatos stated that he too can be frozen. it is just that it has to be a few hundred degrees below absolute zero, which means no human can achieve, until hyouga awakened the god cloth and beat hypnos, his twin brother with it. the two god's god clothes are the same level so hyouga after god cloth can achieve higher than absolute zero.

4. shaka is the man closet to god in KNOWLEDGE only. next dimension revealed that all virgo saints have access to holy war knowledge. he was like the Wikipedia of the sanctuary.

5. Athena and shaka never died when they went to hell. they both awakened the 8th sense so that they can enter hades' domain and not under his control. the vaporized shaka you saw under the tree after the Athena exclamation was an illusion created by shaka himself, so hades' will believe that he died, and saga/shura/camus had really betrayed Athena. it was all an act. all the saints you saw in hell were alive and well.
I don't believe what people say about the Freezing Coffin being inferior to Camus' because in order for it to work it needs a certain temperature or else it just won't happen

seiya-kun, we went through this before. it was not even a freezing coffin, it was a modified version of it. hyouga doesn't need a high cosmo to create a sheet of ice. he created one that reflected the phoenix genma ken. he was cocky and think that his sheet of ice is the same as the freezing coffin, which is nowhere to be close. as for Vermeer calling himself more powerful than three gold saint combined, we all know it was him being cocky too. deathtoll sent him back to hell without a cloth. it was all hype/arrogance. as for minos withstanding the gold saints blasts and survived, what gave you the conclusion that the griffon surplice is the strongest, or that the other two surplice don't have the same durability as griffon?

the gold saints died because the blast reflected to their faces, point blank range. minos took one that was distances away. also, don't forget that deathtoll's peach bomber shattered the griffon surplice too. do you want to make an argument that the peach bomber is the same level as the gold saints' combined effort?
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Seiya

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2015, 02:36:43 AM »
Raigami-san first of all in Mythology Minos was the most famous and had the most important role among the 3 Judges. He leads the other two...his name means king. I understand you are a Rhadamanthys fan...I don't know what made you believe that he is the strongest Judge. Was it because he didn't fall asleep because he was suspicious of Orpheus? I don't know...but that's not enough, it's like saying that Hades is stronger than Zeus. What I am trying to say here is that I refuse to believe that Masami made a less important figure than the most important among the 3.

I have never said that the Griffon Surplice is stronger than the other two Judges' Surplice. The durability is the same one. It's the persons that wear them...

Correction: I have read it one more time and apparently I read it or remember it wrong. Dohko says when Vermeer appears "his Cosmo is stronger than a Gold Saint's". (how did I read 3? don't ask)

One more thing what do you mean Hyoga was not on a Gold Saint's level when he fought Minos? He defeated Milo and Camus...two Gold Saints? stop underestimating Hyoga. Even if it is another variation of the Freezing Coffin the result should be the same. It's like two ice cubes of the same size from two different fridges....put them in two different cups with water of the same temperature and see which one will melt first....

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2015, 12:37:43 AM »
1. Mythology Minos was the most famous

2. One more thing what do you mean Hyoga was not on a Gold Saint's level when he fought Minos? He defeated Milo and Camus...

3. ice cube

1. mythologies aside, lets consider facts from the actual storyline. did you consider him the strongest because he was able to break kanon's finger after he was ganged up by aiacos? or that he was the last judge to appear or die? then if so, wyvern is still the strongest in that sense, as wyvern will be the last to appear in ND. as I said before, aiacos was dead, wyvern was dead, and he needed someone to proof that the dimension destroys everythin that does not have god's blood or protection. being last of three was chosen by default.

2. was hyouga really a gold saint's level? he and shiryu were both easily knocked out by a terrestrial star (the wolf dude). can that be considered gold saint level? to be a gold saint level you gotta be able to maintain the same level of 7th sense consistently, he wasn't when he fought minos. ups and downs doesn't mean you are there yet. camus' diamnd dust easily blew mu away and froze shaka's knee, hyouga's was constantly blocked/deflected/negated by enemies after sanctuary arc, post camus' death.

3. your argument is that same technique, different users = same effect, not really (see shiryu's Excalibur attempts 'plural'). also, does an ice cube have the same density as an iceberg? a variation is never the same as the original. minos stood behind a sheet of ice and was not frozen like hyouga was frozen and immobilized within a "coffin." of course it is easy to break that thin sheet of ice. given the same circumstance, any judge should be able to do it.

I m not underestimating hyouga, I m just sayin that by breakin an inferior technique does not make you the strongest of the three, nor leagues above the gold saints level.
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Seiya

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2015, 06:11:29 AM »
1. mythologies aside, lets consider facts from the actual storyline. did you consider him the strongest because he was able to break kanon's finger after he was ganged up by aiacos? or that he was the last judge to appear or die? then if so, wyvern is still the strongest in that sense, as wyvern will be the last to appear in ND. as I said before, aiacos was dead, wyvern was dead, and he needed someone to proof that the dimension destroys everythin that does not have god's blood or protection. being last of three was chosen by default.

2. was hyouga really a gold saint's level? he and shiryu were both easily knocked out by a terrestrial star (the wolf dude). can that be considered gold saint level? to be a gold saint level you gotta be able to maintain the same level of 7th sense consistently, he wasn't when he fought minos. ups and downs doesn't mean you are there yet. camus' diamnd dust easily blew mu away and froze shaka's knee, hyouga's was constantly blocked/deflected/negated by enemies after sanctuary arc, post camus' death.

3. your argument is that same technique, different users = same effect, not really (see shiryu's Excalibur attempts 'plural'). also, does an ice cube have the same density as an iceberg? a variation is never the same as the original. minos stood behind a sheet of ice and was not frozen like hyouga was frozen and immobilized within a "coffin." of course it is easy to break that thin sheet of ice. given the same circumstance, any judge should be able to do it.

I m not underestimating hyouga, I m just sayin that by breakin an inferior technique does not make you the strongest of the three, nor leagues above the gold saints level.

1. Then what makes Rhadamanthys so strong is what I don't get and you haven't answered me that yet. Still waiting. Order of appearance doesn't matter for me...as he was the first Judge to appear. Aiacos is probably the weakest.  I don't care if the Wyvern of ND is the strongest I am just saying that in the 3 "original" Judges Minos is the strongest. And we all know that he wasn't the only one who was thrown in the Kami no Michi so this thing to show how the Kami no Michi works...does not count...so in a way that was the best option against someone they couldn't defeat. Hyoga was about to die...he tried everything and with no success.

I am tired of hearing these overrated dudes over and over again...Ikki, Shaka, Sorrento, Rhadamanthys and no matter how many times I hear about their feats...they will never convince me because they are ridiculous.

2. They are main characters...not everything they do must be flawless otherwise it would be boring. If Specters died like Rune did by Kanon then..bleh who would want to read something that the good guys have the advantage by long... We all liked the duel between Mu and Myu and that's because it wasn't one sided....
Camus was the bad guy of course he would hit Mu and Shaka...someone has to do it. If it was Shura they would be dead, if it was Saga, again...they would be dead.

3. Again why do you think that his Freezing Coffin was indeed inferior from Camus'? I still don't understand why you are saying this

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2015, 10:04:46 AM »
Speaking of Rhadamanthys why was Kanon able to defeat him so easily but Aiolia, Milo, and Mu could not was it because of the 8 sense?

Niello

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2015, 10:25:35 AM »
Speaking of Rhadamanthys why was Kanon able to defeat him so easily but Aiolia, Milo, and Mu could not was it because of the 8 sense?

When the three fought with Radamanthys, they were at Hades castle which had a barrier up. The barrier reduced the strength of Athena saints to 1/10 of their usual power. That doesn't apply in the underworld...as for why that is the case, i don't know. I don't think it has been explained.

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2015, 11:01:20 AM »
When the three fought with Radamanthys, they were at Hades castle which had a barrier up. The barrier reduced the strength of Athena saints to 1/10 of their usual power. That doesn't apply in the underworld...as for why that is the case, i don't know. I don't think it has been explained.

Rhada says they expect the dead only to come to underworld. Usually only those who come to underworld are weak and shit... ;)

Niello

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2015, 12:11:07 PM »
Rhada says they expect the dead only to come to underworld. Usually only those who come to underworld are weak and shit... ;)

I see...wait, does that imply that they aren't going after Hades in the underworld in ND? Otherwise it could create even more paradox than just the sword.

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2015, 01:47:43 PM »
I see...wait, does that imply that they aren't going after Hades in the underworld in ND? Otherwise it could create even more paradox than just the sword.

I am 99.99% they are not going in the Underworld in ND because in the original series Athena wanted to put an end to Hades by defeating him in his own domain...which she did. So yeah there is no barrier in the Underworld because only the dead go to the Underworld which they are weak and of course under Hades' rules. Athena thought that was their big chance. Why she didn't think about it in the previous Holy Wars? who knows? maybe ND will explain to us that Athena thought about it before and might have told her plan to Shion but let Dohko in the dark but gave him Misopethamenos and prepared him etc etc.

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Re: Translation errors or plot inaccuracies
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2015, 10:08:25 PM »
1. Then what makes Rhadamanthys so strong is what I don't get and you haven't answered me that yet.

2. They are main characters...not everything they do must be flawless otherwise it would be boring. If Specters died like Rune did by Kanon then..bleh who would want to read something that the good guys have the advantage by long... We all liked the duel between Mu and Myu and that's because it wasn't one sided....
Camus was the bad guy of course he would hit Mu and Shaka...someone has to do it. If it was Shura they would be dead, if it was Saga, again...they would be dead.

3. Again why do you think that his Freezing Coffin was indeed inferior from Camus'? I still don't understand why you are saying this

1. before i give you a very simple answer, look at my #2 and #3 below:

2. can you deny that hyouga (post camus fight) had his diamond dust deflected and nullified by opponents, in multiple ocassion? to the point that when he uses it, you know it would never work. and goin back to my original point of camus' DD. it had nothing to do with flawless = boring. i m askin you to look at the DD comparison by teacher and pupil. how easy it was for the teacher to use it effectively on an opponent. even kaza of all people deflected it in camus-mode. which leads to 3 and most important

3. because IT WAS NOT EVEN A FREEZING COFFIN. it was called a variation, and variation is not the same as the original. is that so hard to understand? also, the series had proved over and over that just because it is the same move, being used by different people have different effect. how many times did shiryu's excelibur failed before it was successful after he went chip and dale on krishna? bronze level Excalibur in the beginning of the fight barely cut through sushi, gold level Excalibur cut the lance. galaxian explosion: saga took ikki out the first time, right? then when ikki took the same GEx in posideon arc, he clearly said it is inferior to saga's. AND, after taking the third one from cain/abel (same technique wont work twice, so three times is impossible right?) what happened? ikki said he witnessed the GEx before, yet he was still destroyed on "a cellular level" despite being able to take it. does that not convince you that same move works differently by different user? you know why it was not a freezing coffin? a freezing coffin traps the opponent in a coffin of ice, freezing them and immobilizing them. that is a freezing coffin. that ice sheet hyouga created is barely a sheet of ice that minos stood behind, so him punching through it is not impossible. scroll up a few posts above, the source link is there. it was a variation. totally different and not even close.

so to answer your question on #1, what made rhadamanthys strong was because aiacos was beaten by a bronze and minos was stopped by a bronze. so by default, and the fact that the author himself tried to explain, no matter how much damage the guy took, he came back again and again. if you can understand the simple facts that hyouga was not able to use a gold saint level technique, his cosmos was constantly up and down, and that by your own logic (if a bronze beats you, you aint that strong), maybe then you can understand that hyouga was not strong at the time. and by so, minos is not strong at all, hence, the number two judge.

i, like you, am not convinced that shaka is that strong. top 5 gold saints, defintely, top 3, debatable. strongest, not even close. not because everyone said so, but from facts. if you wanna go back to ikki vs seiya, we can. but lets go back to the post that we were on.
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