Author Topic: Lyra Orphe's power  (Read 2987 times)

Cancer Cadaver

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Re: Lyra Orphe's power
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2013, 05:23:05 AM »
camus mentioned that hyoga surpassed him, yup he did. did you forget that hyoga was near death and unconcious when he did it? were the fab5's constnatly fightin on a steady 7th sense level? if they were, the marinas would had went down like butter. shiryu had to do his stripper routine, which means dragon, concentrate, concentrate, 7th sense, in order to break chrysnor's lance. the first halfassed one didnt work on the lance, remember? his excalibur was halfass when he took on queen and gordon. if you dont think it is halfass, queen's head woulda fall off when he hit him, no? plus the dude was injured by the time gordon comes with a full on axe. so the fab5s were not fighting on a steady 7th sense level like the gold saints can do normally. by hades chapter, new cloth + experience defintely made them stronger. i really doubt hyoga's freezin coffin on minos was the same or close to camus'. after all, he didnt do no swan dance, or something like shiryu's stripper routine, so it is rather halfass. BTW, if the freezin coffin is really that strong even combined gold saints cannot destroy it, why the hell do you do it especially shiryu is still on the other side???
i m not even gonna throw in LC golds/judges but if you wanna throw in LC gold saints, the judges would pretty much be like butter if aspros comes out. aspros killed a GOD in his gemini surplice!!! god-badassmanthys, omg, why? sisyphos, stupid battle...
The fact that Hyoga still made the same statement of it as Camus did shows it was at least on par with his master's technique. The Bronzes may not have constantly been fighting with their 7th sense active, but such a thing dosen't act as "no special moment = no 7th sense". Did you see Ikki go through any "special moment" when he used the Ho Yoku Tensho on Thanatos and earned praise from the god for his power? Not to mention that Shiryu was caught in a situation where he was cornered in a desperate situation, the same as Seiya was with the 2 minor gods in Elysium. He definately wasn't fighting at his base level. As for the Freezing Coffin, not only is the Libra Cloth close to Shiryu, but Hyoga may have been having the same mentality as the Bronzes in Sanctuary of "get to the goal, no matter what".
The comment on TLC wasn't aimed at it's Gold Saints, but how average Gold Saints such as Albafica, Degel and Kardia were shown to be no match for the Judges, and only beat Minos and Rhadamanthys due to both skill and sacrifice.

Canthre

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Re: Lyra Orphe's power
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2013, 07:51:50 AM »
UGH, Leo vs Wyvern was the only part of TLC I truly hated. Seemed more like something Tite Kubo would have done(For those unaware, he is the creator of Bleach, and is known for pissing off readers by showing characters evolve and investing many chapters in showing them getting stronger, to suddenly decide the enemies are stronger and just survive everything).

Back on the main topic: I figure Lyra is about as strong as Shaka, who is arguably the strongest of the 20th century saints(Libra might be stronger....if we had ever seen him really fight). Lyra's main weakness seems to be his defense, and the fact his lyre is the source of his techniques. Without that, he's useless. Does have any defensive techniques in the manga that they cut for the OVAs? In a one-on-one against Shaka, I'd say he lose.

Oh, and I think Kanon would *not* have survived against all three Judges. He killed Garuda without too much effort, but Minos and his "Cosmic Marionette" would have been a serious problem. Hell, I doubt Saga would have won.

There is simply no way to describe the stupidity of Leo vs Wyvern fight. So I won't even try.

Eh, I really don't see how Orphee can be this strong. But maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but has he done anything, besides defeating Pharaoh? It's cool that he can make people fall asleep, but it's not such a great a feat...

Honestly, I don't think any of the Gold Saints would take the Three Judges at once. Shaka has some chances of surviving, I'd give the same to Saga, propably Shion & Dohko as well, but not defeating them. In my view Judges are of similar power, but Minos is extremely dangerous when paired with someone. He's perfect for team work, so to say :P On the other hand, I think two Gold Saints (hm, Mu & Shaka? Shion & Dohko? Saga & Kanon?) could take the Three Judges.


The comment on TLC wasn't aimed at it's Gold Saints, but how average Gold Saints such as Albafica, Degel and Kardia were shown to be no match for the Judges, and only beat Minos and Rhadamanthys due to both skill and sacrifice.

As we usually admit it to Bronze Saints - it means that Albafica & Co had overpowered Minos and Rhadamanthys. Maybe normally they are a little weaker, but as we saw they were able to take them. And Sisyphus took down Aiacos without sacrifice. In other words, High Level Gold Saint > Judge > Lower Level Gold Saint. Theoretically, of course.

Cancer Cadaver

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Re: Lyra Orphe's power
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2013, 05:38:59 PM »
Sure, High Level Gold Saint>Judge, in TLC, in which Dohko, stated by Saga to be the strongest 20th Century Gold Saint in terms of strength is barely average compared to his peers. We saw how average or slightly above average Gold Saints compare from the examples I mentioned, as well as Dohko struggling heavily with Gordon and Sylphid.
Whilst it's true Kardia barely overpowered Rhadamanthys, he gave his life by doing so. As for Albafica, it seemed to be made pretty clear that Minos' carelessness was a major factor in his defeat.

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Re: Lyra Orphe's power
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2013, 02:03:54 PM »
i am in no shape, way, or form is stating that any judges are weak. i do agree that the judges are major ass whoopers, but to say that they are way stronger than any gold saints (or gold saints to judges vice versa) is an overstatement. lyra ***might*** exceed gold saint level, but there was no proof of that. rhada didnt fall asleep listenin to his lyre, so, i dunno about that validity.

as to aiacos claiming that one strike will had been enough to kill kanon, well, i think he was overestimating himself. he claimed that the ikki would had died from the first one, didnt come true.

if we pair any of the high level gold saints (saga/shaka/kanon/mu/douko) any of these two combination, GAME OVER. i think saga/shaka with another gold saint combo would vaporize all three judges combined. THAT i think is overpowering. kanon definitely wont survive aiacos/minos combo, i dont think ANY one gold saint can take on two judges.


Dohko, stated by Saga to be the strongest 20th Century Gold Saint in terms of strength

another instance of kurumada-sensei kicking his own ass again! mu stated aldebaran to be the strongest gold saints in terms of pure strength. if he was serious in his fight against the fab4, they woulda been crushed (literally).

proof: niobe getting hokuto no ken'd after aldebaran hit him with the great horn, despite near death, shows how much power the dude had.

thats why i think the *original* seiya universe is filled with exaggeration to show that [insert character] is strong. all gold saints are equal in power, not deathmask and aphrodite!

comparing LC gold saints to original gold saints is kinda pointless. one is original, the other is non-cannon to the point where some, like regulus and aspros, SHOULD be called the god killers :)
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bluesbreaker

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Re: Lyra Orphe's power
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2016, 06:47:10 AM »
I think Orphee is one formidable character who did not have enough screen time to show his full potential. All we have seen is taking down a fellow musician namely Pharaoh, who was no slouch either.....about DM and Dite's level.
It would be uber fascinating if he was shown fighting a non-musical warrior face-to-face. His downfall at the hands of Rhada leaves room for all kinds of interpretations. I for one think Orphee is on par with Mu.
Now, what would happen if Orphee was sent to kill the bronzies instead of Misty and co? Orphee can defenitely wipe the 4 out, while Ikki is a big question though. 

Reikyavic

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Re: Lyra Orphe's power
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2016, 03:52:29 PM »
Is there even boombastic claims of someone's powerlevel left in Saint Seiya that hasn't been undermined? Just a thought. Whenever someone goes on with hyped monologue that this and that guy is best shit since sliced bread in this series, I just think it is just alternative way to say "this guy is pretty strong ok? ok".

I'm pretty sure too that Lyra was said to be about as powerful as Gold Saints, at some point, when the character was introduced? Sounds realistic, seeing how gloriously Gold Saints themselves seemed to underperform in Hades arc, but maybe we could put Saga's ability to functionally prepare Sanctuary to holy war under scrutiny, while we are at this. Dunno, mabe this just shows that there is more to fight than raw power, physical or cosmic.
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