Poll

What is your favorite Saint Seiya series?

Saint Seiya (manga)
Saint Seiya (anime)
Saint Seiya (movies)
Episode G
Next Dimension
The Lost Canvas (manga)
The Lost Canvas (anime)
Omega
Kurumada's Manga (SS+ND)
Anime Canon (SSA+SSM+Omega)
Alternative Manga (EG, LC)
All Manga
All Anime
Everything
Other Combination

Author Topic: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?  (Read 7984 times)

Mewzard

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What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« on: September 12, 2012, 10:42:12 AM »
I noticed that the previous poll was rather limited, so I decided to make this. Feel free to post what's your favorite after the vote, and explain why. I figured this might add to the discussion a little bit.

Haldir

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2012, 11:02:46 AM »
Ugh! You should had allowed Multiple Choices for people like me who LOVE both the Classic Series Manga, and Lost Canvas Manga & Anime (no.....still dun like the Classic Series Anime except the Hades Chapter cause I'm a mostly a Manga Purist)

Mewzard

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2012, 11:05:45 AM »
Ugh! You should had allowed Multiple Choices for people like me who LOVE both the Classic Series Manga, and Lost Canvas Manga & Anime (no.....still dun like the Classic Series Anime except the Hades Chapter cause I'm a mostly a Manga Purist)

That's what Other was for, lol. Well, don't worry, I reset the poll, and gave you a few voting options.

Mirach

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2012, 01:46:39 PM »
Multiple Choice is a great idea ^^ although if I can choose only three options, it means I have to go for Classic Manga only.
My preferences here seem the same as Haldir's - there are things in the Classic Anime that simply annoy me, but for me it gets better the closer it follows the manga. So, yeah...
I didn't choose ND because I still have the original manga to finish (in Japanese, and it takes time, which I'm lacking lately -_-). But I've got to say - from the few chapters I've read - so far ND seems to me painfully repetitive...

As for the other two options - these must've been LC manga and anime. And I wouldn't like to state if I prefer LC to the Classic - I think they are too different to state anything like this, they tell their stories differently, but I enjoy them both. One may like Teshirogi's style, one may not (I love it, can't help - on the other side, I can't stand the style of EG). And about LC anime - I love it too, the overall impression and the fact that it translates manga really well make me skip the complaints about low detailed armours etc.

Much was already told about the things others like or dislike about the Classic and the LC and I don't feel like adding anything. Maybe except something personal: I owe LC a lot. First of all, it introduced the whole Saint Seiya universe to me - which I instantly fell in love with too xP. And there's the second: I started learning Japanese 'thanks' to the fact that NewbornAnkh stopped releasing their scanlations of LC manga. It was hard as hell, but I was SO determined to know what the heck was going on..! xD And look where that got me - I'm starting to study Japanese this year x]

Shiryu

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2012, 02:37:15 PM »
For me, it's classic anime, a vast improvement over a rather so-so manga, the movies, and Episode G, best StS manga ever.

Omega and ND are still very much in progress, so difficult to judge. They both look like they may either become really good or fall completely apart when things start to change.
The original manga is ok at times, but for the most part it's one big plot hole with decent art but awful characterizations, whilst I don't even consider LC as Saint Seiya related.

I should add that, in relation to the anime, I mostly refer to episodes 1-99. I like it less and less as it starts to follow the manga too closely, especially in the latter half of the Hades chapter.
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Mewzard

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 03:12:45 PM »
Multiple Choice is a great idea ^^ although if I can choose only three options, it means I have to go for Classic Manga only.
My preferences here seem the same as Haldir's - there are things in the Classic Anime that simply annoy me, but for me it gets better the closer it follows the manga. So, yeah...
I didn't choose ND because I still have the original manga to finish (in Japanese, and it takes time, which I'm lacking lately -_-). But I've got to say - from the few chapters I've read - so far ND seems to me painfully repetitive...

As for the other two options - these must've been LC manga and anime. And I wouldn't like to state if I prefer LC to the Classic - I think they are too different to state anything like this, they tell their stories differently, but I enjoy them both. One may like Teshirogi's style, one may not (I love it, can't help - on the other side, I can't stand the style of EG). And about LC anime - I love it too, the overall impression and the fact that it translates manga really well make me skip the complaints about low detailed armours etc.

Much was already told about the things others like or dislike about the Classic and the LC and I don't feel like adding anything. Maybe except something personal: I owe LC a lot. First of all, it introduced the whole Saint Seiya universe to me - which I instantly fell in love with too xP. And there's the second: I started learning Japanese 'thanks' to the fact that NewbornAnkh stopped releasing their scanlations of LC manga. It was hard as hell, but I was SO determined to know what the heck was going on..! xD And look where that got me - I'm starting to study Japanese this year x]

Trust me when I say ND isn't as "repetitive" as you might think. It does share some elements (which is a nod to Greek Mythology itself, where repetition is the norm *Just look at Uranus, Cronus, and Zeus*), but it also takes a number of liberties (especially once you get back to Saori in the modern era). I could write several paragraphs detailing that opinion, but I don't want to spoil too much. Just trust me: once it gets going, it gets good.

And seeing these two posts next together is quite interesting: One who felt the anime bettered itself once it followed the manga, and one that felt it was good when I stuck to it's own thing (though, maybe it's just you didn't like the adaptation of the Poseidon arc, lol).

My own opinion might make me come off as a bit of a manga snob, but I can't help it; the manga's what pulled me into the franchise more than anything else (though, the anime did help my interest start to grow prior to buying it). I love the voice work and the music of the anime, while I don't really like the plot/character deviations they take. I'm also not a fan of most of the harmless filler (i.e. stuff that doesn't actively change the story), but it's harmless. The animation's not bad, but I just wanted something more like Kuru's style, with all his designs (admittedly, that would only really work in live action or CG animation).

I, like many, don't have much experience with Episode G to comment too much on it...though I would be more than willing to read through it if we could get more scanlations.

The Lost Canvas is interesting, as it shared a good portion of time in the same period with Next Dimension, telling different versions of the same event. The art's pretty good (if not somewhat standard for manga art), and the characters are rather likeable (though, the limit of this story is that it has to be a bloodbath throughout, lol). That said, some plot elements Shiori chose left me in between scratching my head, and screaming at the monitor in frustration (I'm looking at you, Leo Regulus). She also threw in a lot of nods to Kuru's work that don't necessarily make sense (Balrog Rune doing the judging thing in LC, when he was only doing so in the classic series since he was told to while his master went to meet up with Hades; Aiacos living only to be told to go back to being Suikyou *a nod to ND, but otherwise pointless*; The whole deal with the God Cloth...what the Hell happened to the Pegasus Cloth in between then and the modern era?). A fine series, but not my favorite. The anime adaptation's not bad, though lacking an ending does hurt it a bit.

Next Dimension is awesome for me for several reasons: One, it's a continuation of the original story after 15 years. Two, it's Kurumada's art in full color (and while rough at first, the man is getting back to giving us his best). Three, it's got time travel in it, which is always awesome. And four, we're finally getting new gods and forces to deal with. The past portion may share with The Lost Canvas, but the gods won't let it be that simple, especially with an angry Athena charging up Mount Olympus. It's nice to see both new and old characters, and an actual semi-intelligent Pegasus (Tenma's using his head, since he's the lest DEM of the Pegasus). I'm really enjoying it thus far, and excitedly await the next batch of chapters (with more time with the modern era, and the return of another Bronze Saint).

Omega's...well, it's hard to decide for me. It's not that bad...but it's not that good either. It has it's moments, but has dragged out at times. It also murdered the awesome designs of the past for...lulz? I don't know...I still need more time before I can really say if I like it or hate it (kinda in the middle right now).

Die_Flux

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 07:46:17 PM »
whilst I don't even consider LC as Saint Seiya related.

I've got to share this with you, Shiryu.

But oterwise I'v got to say that my favourite one was the classic manga until Next Dimension be released, now I think like bouth same way. I knew the series with the anime and only have read the manga six or seven years latter when it was first published here. Only then I saw how TOEI have done unlikeble things with the Saint Seiya plot. The studio have changed characters introducing things that was not on the manga. Without counting fillers, but while I don't like it I have to accept it because of the periodicity of Kurumada's work. ^^'

Well, of unecessary things TOEI have changed the one that most anger me (mostly because of the small brain of brazilians) is the characterization of Shun, and a bit of Ikki. Of course he is a sensitive man on the manga too, but he's strong and only don't use his force for don't like fighting. On the anime (and movies) he's shown as a weak that only asks Niisan's help. They've turned his sensitive personality on a caricatural thing. Changing his Cloth, turning it into baby pink (when in the classic manga was near to red colored) with braists. Braists that was the knees cloth piece on the manga version. They changed the scene he helps Hiyoga on Libra temple with his cosmo from a 'sitting touching the shoulders' to 'laying with'. These things with the brazilian mind that man can't be sensitive as heterosexual kind of bugs me. And Shun on the manga is not even gay (or not openly perceptive to be),  he's described as most pure person that one has met. Because of this Idon't even see him as a person with sexual thoughts yet, maybe as a inocent child.

Spoiler for the ones who didn't read the cassic manga till the end.
[spoiler]
And that's purity why he's choose as Hades receptacle. It's said that Hades receptacle is the puriest one on earth of each generation.
[/spoiler]

Even Seiya is a caricaturalized as the only one that wins and solves everything, but a lot of times asking for Atenas help. I only have learnt to like Seiya with the manga (the original Seiya one). The only excessive positive caracterization on the anime was Shiryu's one and maybe some parts of calm timid sense/sorrowfull Hiyoga.

"Trust me when I say ND isn't as "repetitive" as you might think. It does share some elements (which is a nod to Greek Mythology itself, where repetition is the norm *Just look at Uranus, Cronus, and Zeus*), but it also takes a number of liberties (especially once you get back to Saori in the modern era). I could write several paragraphs detailing that opinion, but I don't want to spoil too much. Just trust me: once it gets going, it gets good."


"Next Dimension is awesome for me for several reasons: One, it's a continuation of the original story after 15 years. Two, it's Kurumada's art in full color (and while rough at first, the man is getting back to giving us his best). Three, it's got time travel in it, which is always awesome. And four, we're finally getting new gods and forces to deal with. The past portion may share with The Lost Canvas, but the gods won't let it be that simple, especially with an angry Athena charging up Mount Olympus. It's nice to see both new and old characters, and an actual semi-intelligent Pegasus (Tenma's using his head, since he's the lest DEM of the Pegasus). I'm really enjoying it thus far, and excitedly await the next batch of chapters (with more time with the modern era, and the return of another Bronze Saint)."


Next Dimension is the best thing that have ever happened to Saint Seiya nowadays to me. Like Mewzard I grantee it's not that repetitive. Things has another context on Next Dimension, other background, other causes. It's faster than the classic manga, because actual part is not the centra story. It's like a prelude to a bigger chapter.

seconded all this second paragraph i've quoted.

My own opinion might make me come off as a bit of a manga snob, but I can't help it; the manga's what pulled me into the franchise more than anything else (though, the anime did help my interest start to grow prior to buying it). I love the voice work and the music of the anime, while I don't really like the plot/character deviations they take. I'm also not a fan of most of the harmless filler (i.e. stuff that doesn't actively change the story), but it's harmless. The animation's not bad, but I just wanted something more like Kuru's style, with all his designs (admittedly, that would only really work in live action or CG animation).

The soundtrek of Saint Seiya anime is one of the most beautifuls I've ever listened in all kind of medias (movies, animes, series, etc) and with Zelda's one don't stay out of my cel and my tab to I listen ever I can and want. Yokoyama (so as Kondo) are a music genious.

And I've got to say that I would love with all the cosmo of my heart a remake of original series folowing as close as possible Kurumada's manga (including all the original cloth designs). When they've anounced the new Saint Seiya series witout talk about what it would really be (Omega) I was so hopefull of a remake because we're seing a lots of anime remakes as Dragon Ball Kai, Rurouni Kenshin, Fullmetal Alchemist and Seilor Moon. And with the Next Dimension turning into a regular publishing I thought it would be quite a good time to remake things right way without ignoring differences that TOEI has made on the anime and following the manga (like they made with the Hades Chapter).

But for a unnoficial animation, Omega is still funny.

Mewzard

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2012, 07:56:01 AM »
Well, you may be a new member here, but nobody can deny your passion Die_Flux.

It's always fun to see so many diverse opinions on what is a vast franchise. Even in just a few posts, we get a lot of interesting debate. I'd love to hear more from both people who have posted and new people. I'd add more myself, but I got up far too early to post right this second...@_@

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2012, 10:09:43 AM »
Shun is one of my favorite characters, so I didn't like it either when they made him seem weak, always needing rescue by his brother. Especially in the movies and filler he didn't get a fair share of the fighting. Just cause he's sensitive with pure heart does not = weak or gay...

I don't really mind the other stuff tho, the pink armor to me its just part of "crazy anime colors" and I didn't pay it no mind.

And I enjoyed the Libra temple scene.  :puppyeyes: Maybe get a lot of jokes from that scene, but I don't read anything into it, since Shun really is that innocent.

I'd agree, Saint Seiya has a great soundtrack, full of memorable scores that are still frequently in my playlist. The voice-work was good too.
Lost Canvas on the other hand got a mostly bland soundtrack that sounds the same as several other anime. I'm not too found of that composer.

My picks:
Saint Seiya (manga and anime)
Lost Canvas (manga and anime)
Next Dimension

To me, manga and anime kinda complement each other with their own strength and weakness so I lump them together.

Shiryu

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2012, 02:29:52 PM »
I think the problem I have with the original manga is that I don't see Kurumada as the creator of Saint Seiya. Published with the Italian edition there was a lenghty interview where he explained how his original idea for what was to become Saint Seiya didn't include Cloths, cosmo, mythology or constellations. It should have been a manga about monks fighting with various martial arts, following in the steps of Ring ni Kakero. Thankfully, whilst accepting the very general idea, the sadly un-named Shueisha editors tweaked with it a lot, suggesting all the changes we are familiar with. Even the Cloths were only added in the hope that Bandai would pick up on them and create a toy line, as it did indeed happen.

As such, I don't see manga Seiya as the real Seiya, and anime Seiya as the rip-off, but as two different characters who happen to share the same name and little else. Whilst I like how Kurumada portrays his characters as tough, "real" men, who hardly ever shed tears and don't have any inkling of self-doubt, I also consider it a stereotype, all too common in series of that period (especially Hokuto no Ken, but also some sports manga). I find their anime personalities far more realistic and likeable, less cliched, especially in the Asgard and pre-Sanctuary series.

Funnily enough, I also see some of those traits in Next Dimension. So far we have had an Ikki more open to understanding his enemies and their inner pains, and a more sentimental Shun.
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AriesMu188

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2012, 02:53:57 PM »
Well Masami's original idea was more a Karate fighting deal but I don't totally buy Shueisha forcing the Cloth idea down his throat.

What's more possible was that he had his own idea of where the Cloths should go, remember the Sci-Fi looking Peg Cloth Ver 2? ;) Shueisha probably told him, "No we not going that way... More myth like please..."

I personally believe the manga B't X came out of the frustration he had that he didn't do the Sci-Fi angle of Saint Seiya... :)


Shiryu

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2012, 04:19:43 PM »
I don't know for sure, but my understanding is that it wasn't a process exclusive to Saint Seiya or Kurumada, but the way it always is with authors and their publishers. At least, both Kishimoto and Kubo implied so in their databooks for Naruto and Bleach. It's also the way it happens in Europe and certainly the USA, where storylines are decided during meetings between author, editors, supervisors and so on. Comic books are much more the product of team work than what one may initially suppose.
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AriesMu188

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2012, 04:50:18 PM »
Yer I don't disagree with that. That's why it went from Leo Main character->Pegasus Main Character because the editor suggested it.

But to say the Cloth was totally a forced idea, that's just not so. Like I said in another thread people are getting the timeline order wrong. Bandai was not involved in the formation of the manga but after many months of serialization.

Remember at the time, the manga was very popular but the Anime in the very beginning was not popular. And one of the problems the fans had was the change in the design of the anime. They liked the 1st manga versions of the Bronze Cloths.

One of the inspiration of the Cloths for Masami was 'Sexy Robot'. He was going into that direction. But with Bandai involvement later, Masami changed the direction of the design when he did the 3rd Peg Cloth. The Sci-Fi feel to the 2nd Peg Cloth and Fake Sag Cloth was dropped.

Now we look at it because of nostalgia, people can't get enough of the anime designs but back then it was not so. When Asgard ch. came along and they stayed more true to the manga Poseidon ver. Those Bronze versions became very popular. And the toy sales broke records. New Peg Cloth and Aiolos was the best selling figures...

Shiryu

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2012, 05:05:27 PM »
Yep, I remember all that, I think it was said in an interview to the then executive something of Bandai published on the Taizen. He was desperate for new ideas, saw the son of his neighbour mimic Pegasus RyuseiKen and came up with the Saint Cloth series. :D

However what the interview to Kurumada said is that they were already counting on it (and on an anime being made) before the publication of the manga began. After all, it was commonplace to convert succesfull manga into anime, and, in turn, to have toy lines made after succesfull anime. They were obviously looking ahead and banking on Kurumada's previous level of success with Ring ni Kakero and/or Araki's popolarity following Grendizer, Versailles no Bara and so on. So they suggested beforehand to include some plot or graphic element that would go hand in hand with a toy line.
Kurumada agreed it would have been a good idea, reasoning that strong fighters needed some form of protection, and the rest is history.

So I wouldn't say it was forced down his throat, but also that it wasn't his original idea either. More like the result of a few meetings and marketing strategies.
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AriesMu188

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Re: What is your favorite Saint Seiya Series?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2012, 05:13:42 PM »
If the Cloth design was the same for both manga and anime from the beginning, maybe, but as everyone can see it was not. ;)

And like I said before, Saint Seiya anime in the beginning was a failure... The announcement of anime show was in Jump Issue 38. That's more than 30 weeks after the first ch of the manga... If the anime guys were involved even before the manga was drawn I doubt if it take that long for the anime to surface... :)