Author Topic: The Linguistics Topic  (Read 24672 times)

Phyrra

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #90 on: November 12, 2007, 01:13:34 AM »
VF:  Yeah, it's the same here.

@ Winnie:  So salamat means 'good' or only used for greeting?
ASL is not as common as other languages in America.  It's mainly used with the deaf and hard of hearing (of course...)  But it's something nice to know because there were times when I could not speak, and even though my friends don't know it, they get the jist of it.
Good afternoon is similar to good morning but you have your arm raise up (like the sun) to a 90o angle.
Good evening is also alike, but have your horizontal arm over your vertical one, in a going down gesture (setting sun)
here is an image with numbers.  Numbers 1-5 you have to have palm facing you, 6-9 palm facing out.  fractions you pull down and #'s 11-12 are just flicking the fingers.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Mel





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Khrazah

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #91 on: November 12, 2007, 01:33:06 AM »
There should be a better way to do this language thing, whateverwinnie's language lesson is cool but it doesn't help at all without knowing how to pronounce it, and mels doesn't really help either because it doesnt show an actually person doing it. My suggestion is that maybe try doing Youtube videos to explain better. Or other video or sound bit devices.
:khrazah: :minos:

Himeros

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #92 on: November 12, 2007, 04:38:50 AM »
@Mel: I hope u r not confused between Indonesian and Malaysian. In Indoensian, Selamat indeed means 'good' in terms of greetings. In other context, selamat means SAFE.

Good morning = Selamat pagi
Good day = Selamat SIANG (we dont use selamat tengah hari LOL. That sounds silly here ^_^)
Good afternoon = Selamat sore/petang (sore is more common)
Good evening&night = Selamat malam

1,2,3 = satu, dua, tiga
4,5,6 = empat, lima, enam
7,8,9 = tujuh, delapan, sembilan

Van Fanel

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #93 on: November 12, 2007, 08:45:11 AM »
Der Admin shall act soon!! ;D

And just to increase the amount of completely different-unrelated-spammy posts: I just noticed there is something wrong in that sentence - it should have been Die instead of Der.
Please forgive me, Shaina!  :X_X:

Shaina [シャイナ]

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #94 on: November 12, 2007, 08:50:45 AM »
Actually "Admin" has male gender if you derive it from "Administrator". Normally it would be completely acceptable to use that form even when a female person is meant as such titles can be used in a neutral way. Nowadays in the time of political correctness, though, many people might insist on a female form (="Administratorin") and in that case you would use the female article. Personally, I don't insist on using the PC form, so you were completely fine. ^_^

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Van Fanel

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #95 on: November 12, 2007, 09:06:01 AM »
Actually "Admin" has male gender if you derive it from "Administrator". Normally it would be completely acceptable to use that form even when a female person is meant as such titles can be used in a neutral way. Nowadays in the time of political correctness, though, many people might insist on a female form (="Administratorin") and in that case you would use the female article. Personally, I don't insist on using the PC form, so you were completely fine. ^_^

Das Admin then? ;)

Shaina [シャイナ]

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #96 on: November 12, 2007, 09:39:52 AM »
That's the only version that doesn't work :P

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Phyrra

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #97 on: November 12, 2007, 11:48:20 PM »
@Fox:  Yeah...  I guess so.  It's kinda hard...

@Endy:  Yeah, I'm trying not to confuse the two.  so much to remember. ^.^

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Himeros

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #98 on: November 13, 2007, 02:36:45 AM »
I really dont know why Indonesian and Malaysian are same but also different. I dont know who invented it. But it's sure weird and funny. Although same words are exactly the same and have same meaning, the pronunciation is slightly different. In my ears, Malaysian accent is like singing accent. It's not literal singing. But Malaysian has distinct intonation that Indonesian doesnt have.

Himeros

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #99 on: November 13, 2007, 02:51:54 AM »
'The admin' sounds nicely enough. Eer.. what is this about die and der? German grammar? (Endy blinks).

Shaina [シャイナ]

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #100 on: November 13, 2007, 03:40:55 AM »
Yup. German grammar. In the German language you find three different genders for nouns:
masculine "der", feminine "die" and neuter "das". Der / die / das are the definite articles. Of course we also have indefinite articles, too, which would be ein / eine / ein. Those are put in front of the nouns and need to be declined according to the case they're in.

1. nominative / 2. genitive / 3. dative / 4. accusative

der Tisch (the table) / des Tisches / dem Tisch(e) / den TIsch
die Tasse (the mug) / der Tasse / der Tasse / die Tasse
das Kind (the child) / des Kindes / dem Kind(e) / das Kind

ein Tisch (a table) / eines Tisches / einem Tisch(e) / einen Tisch
eine Tasse (a mug) / einer Tasse / einer Tasse / eine Tasse
ein Kind (a child)  / eines Kindes / einem Kind(e) / ein Kind

Well, of course there is also a Plural, and that is also declined ^_^

die Tische (the tables) / der Tische / den Tischen / die Tische
die Tassen (the mugs) / der Tassen / den Tassen / die Tassen
die Kinder (the children) / der Kinder / den Kindern / die Kinder

So be happy if you have a language without complex declination and gender system. XD

(And I haven't even started with verb conjugation and German word order... XD)

For the curious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_grammar

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Van Fanel

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #101 on: November 13, 2007, 03:49:55 AM »
*Van Fanel is looking at a German Grammar book* --->

:tatsumi2: : Oh no! Master! Wake up! Don't leave me here alone with all these crazy fangirls! *looks at book* Hmm... What's this? *opens book* --->

AuroraExecution

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #102 on: November 13, 2007, 06:15:05 AM »
I shall impose on the linguistic discussion...

I am fluent in both American English and Mandarin Chinese.  Personally, I prefer British English to American, since all the twangs and stupid grammar deviations (at least that happen around where I live) just bother me.  Such as "Where's my coat at?"  The sentence would be grammatically correct without the "at" and I don't get why everyone around here has an undying need to put it in.  Sigh.  Really, BE sounds and looks much prettier and more refined. 

I know French well enough to read and write it and even speak at a decent rate, but you'll have to slow down if you're talking to me in French or I won't catch anything.  I've had two years of Latin, though I only vaguely remember the rules.  Due to having French and Latin, I am able to navigate through Spanish and Italian and usually have some vague idea of the meaning. 

I also know bits and pieces of Shanghai dialect from Chinese.  For those of you who are wondering about dialects in China, some are not really a question of "knowing."  For example, Sichuan dialect and Northeastern Dialect are very easily understandable from Mandarin, as is Hangzhou dialect.  Usually the pattern is that the farther north you go, the more similar a the dialect is to standard.  In ancient times, the dialect spoken in the capital was standard, so most places that have been a capital (even if it's farther south like Hangzhou or Sichuan), have what we call "Guan Qiang" or "Official Tones."  Barring those places, however, southern dialects tend to be less similar to Mandarin, and often southern dialects are even different between villages, such as in Jiangxi.  Finally, Cantonese, of which I know only a few phrases, is actually fairly standard in Canton and Hongkong, which is surprising when compared to Jiangxi and the variations between villages there.  The reason most people think Mandarin is easier to learn than Cantonese is because of the tones.  If you live in China, Mandarin is considered (besides standard) one of the simplest dialects, because it has only 4 tones, along with a toneless.  Shanghai dialect has 5-6, I believe (I have not learned Shanghai dialect using tones, but simply by my mom telling me how to pronounce stuff ^^), while Cantonese, at one of the most difficult, has 9 or so.  I have to say though, it bugs me when people tell me that "dialect is just a word that the Chinese government uses to prettify it."  Because it's not.  Dialect in China varies so much from being communicable between Northeastern and Sichuan (if you try hard enough) to being completely un-communicable between neighboring villages.  The idea has to be expressed in a word, and the best one I can think of is "dialect."

And finally, I know vague amounts of Japanese.  I know some basic grammar, I can do hiragana, and I have most kanji down due to Chinese.  I don't like katakana though, dunno why.  It just refuses to stick every time I learn it. 

I would like to learn German, Arabic, and Welsh.  But I also love English very much, simply because it's such a weird, random, patchwork thing.  To add to the Anglo-Saxon language discussion from before, we also have Cornwallish...if that's really a language or just a dialect. 

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Shaina [シャイナ]

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #103 on: November 13, 2007, 06:19:16 AM »
Well, about dialects - the saying goes "A language is a dialect with an army to support it." ^_^
So as a matter of fact, the distiction between language and dialect is quite a bit arbitrary.

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whateverwinnie

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Re: The Linguistics Topic
« Reply #104 on: November 13, 2007, 07:28:09 AM »
@Mel: Yep... similar to Indonesian, "Selamat" can mean "good" as in "good morning". The word "selamat" also means safe (adjective). It is normal that a person will confuse between Malay and Indonesian. However, since Malay and Indonesian are so closely related, it doesn't matter that much if you sort of mix it up, Malaysians are sort of used to the Indonesian language as well. (Though I'm not too sure about this in Indonesia).


@Mel and Khrazah: XD Actually, the pronunciation of Malay words is very easy. You pronounce them the way you see them. Basically, the vowels sound like Japanese. Except for "e". "E" in Malay has 2 ways to pronounce it - "e" as in the first "e" of "elephant", and "e" as in "err".

As for the consonants, most of them are pronounced the way you pronounce English consonants... XD

For example, the word "saya" which means I or me. It is simply pronounced as sa-ya. Very similar to the way the Japanese would pronounce it. =D
Another example: "Kamu" which means "you" is simply pronounced as "ka-moo".

Unlike Mandarin and other Chinese dialects, stress and intonation are not too important in Malay. It doesn't matter how high or low your intonation is, or which part of the sentence/word you stress more on.


@AE: Wow, you know quite a number of languages/dialects!!! *worships* It's nice to meet another Chinese-speaking person here. I speak Mandarin and Cantonese... ^^


@Shaina: O.o German looks quite difficult... How do we pronounce "die" in German? Is it like "die" in English?


I really dont know why Indonesian and Malaysian are same but also different. I dont know who invented it. But it's sure weird and funny. Although same words are exactly the same and have same meaning, the pronunciation is slightly different. In my ears, Malaysian accent is like singing accent. It's not literal singing. But Malaysian has distinct intonation that Indonesian doesnt have.
@Endy: ROFL... We Malaysians find Indonesian pronunciation funny, just the way Indonesians find us funny... XD Malaysian accent is like singing? Weird... That is what we think of Indonesian pronunciation!!! XD Also, to us, Indonesian pronunciation of words is always very fast, and is quite difficult to catch sometimes... XD