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« on: December 28, 2008, 08:12:54 PM » |
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Alright, so I've finally sat down and actually read through all the available chapters of Next Dimension (I had previously just skimmed through raws or read summaries). And now I have some inquiries:
1) Since humans, saints, and spectres alike are all walking around it, is it safe to assume that there are now two different Elysium fields -- one on Earth, and one in a Heavenly realm?
2) Apparently this war must've lasted months to years, since we are at the beginning, and Shion's hair is short.
3) In the chapter where Shion and Dohko received their gold cloths, the Pope mentions that they "did not lose to the other gold saints". What happened? Did the two of them fight the other gold saints to prove their worth? Or is the Pope simply saying that their cosmos are on the same level to the established gold saints?
4) OK, so lemme get this straight: Tenma had no idea what a cloth or a Saint is, but he's aware enough about his master to refer him by the sainthood title of "Crateris Suikyo". I get the impression that Suikyo has the habit of going around screaming "I AM CRATERIS SUIKYO!" during training sessions, or something. But seriously, how in the world did Suikyo manage to train Tenma to harness his cosmos without explaining to him the mechanics of being a Saint?
5) Vermeer is.. a much more interesting character than Minos. I wonder if he carries around a tape recorder to record his daily conversations with himself. His cosmos being stronger than gold saints does explain the feats that Minos would eventually accomplish, though.
6) It seems to me that Suikyo being the Garuda spectre is a strong nod to Kanon later becoming the Sea Dragon. Considering his noble reputation and the fact that he was sent "on a mission" by the Pope, it's obvious that Suikyo is actually an agent of Sanctuary infiltrating Elysium for Athena. He might've even been sent to watch over Alone's progress, knowing full well that the boy is Hades' reincarnation.
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Silver Saint with powerful Cosmo
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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2008, 11:23:57 PM » |
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Yeah, it'd make sense if "Elysium" is more of a metaphoric or even illusional sense, since there's apparently a real town next to it. It certainly would explain how Dohko and Shion were able to step into the place, what with them being full fledged enemy saints and all.
Oh, I see. It just seems as if Shion and Dohko had to go through a special test or something, in which case would give us an additional insight into how gold saints are picked or promoted.
But yeah, the thing with Tenma is confusing. It's been a long while since I've read the first few chapters of LC, but LC Tenma's case is different from ND's Tenma. ND Tenma actually received a form of sainthood training, so it's very odd that Suikyo neglected to explain what he's lecturing about. I think it's safe to assume that Suikyo helped Tenma learn the Ryu Sei Ken, and that's one technique you cannot execute without understanding the mechanics of using your cosmos. So... what gives?
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Silver Saint with powerful Cosmo
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 02:35:23 PM » |
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To be honest, I was kinda hoping that there was a test that Dohko and Shion had to take. It would make a great flashback.. of a flashback. Heh. That makes sense -- unless, of course, Suikyo really does go around screaming his Saint title any chance he gets.  Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing Tenma's backstory clarified. There are a number of things strange about it. |
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Silver Saint
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2009, 10:28:11 PM » |
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1. Yes, it's mentioned that place where the flower may be like the utopia of Meikai is called Elysion by the people around there. It's just that. The resumen of ND 9 repeats that too. It's the same like LC, when Alone visites that garden between the mountains and he call it Elysion. So, that place is not special, just a beautiful place whose anyone can walk, until Alone release the Hades barrier (kekkai). The Elysion is always Elysion, the mythical place where Seiya and his friend fighted.
2. Maybe the first idea was to mark the time with Sion's hair, but and Dohko? He will have a long hair too?
Well, to me the difference of Sion's hair is just a mark of the new vision of Kurumada and his new assistents to the character designs. All characters have some little difference, including the Hades's lipstick mark and very white skin and etc...
3. I think the Pope simply saying that because their cosmos are on the same level to the established gold saints, but I think Kurumada should shall why the Pope assumed that.
4. I'm sorry, I didn't understand your point exactly. ^^'
5. Well, since there is a kekkai around that place, Vermeer has the same vantage of Rhadamanthys in that occasion of original manga.
6. Well, I don't think Kurumada thought a lot when he created ND, so what I will post here is just my interpretation about that situation. Well, Suikyo is the same case of Shun. Even they both are Saints, theirs bodys were suitable with Hades and the Evil Star's soul of Garuda Specter. Each Specter is a human being choosed by the Evil Star and its surplice, when that person is possessed by that Specter's soul, there is a combination between the human being and the specter, to me it's a kind of symbiotic relation. I don't think a Saint can infiltrating in the Hades troop to became a major Specter like a Kyoto, maybe that was possible if he hidden his identity like Saga, Shura and Camus when take the Surplice of Ochs, Milz and Cube, but that was not the case of Suikyo.
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2009, 11:34:12 PM » |
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2. Maybe the first idea was to mark the time with Sion's hair, but and Dohko? He will have a long hair too?
Well, to me the difference of Sion's hair is just a mark of the new vision of Kurumada and his new assistents to the character designs. All characters have some little difference, including the Hades's lipstick mark and very white skin and etc... That makes sense, but I still feel that there's a deeper meaning with Shion's new haircut. Hades having pale skin and red lipstick can be attributed as new vision, sure, because those features aren't as significant as Shion's hair being completely different. 6. Well, I don't think Kurumada thought a lot when he created ND, so what I will post here is just my interpretation about that situation. Well, Suikyo is the same case of Shun. Even they both are Saints, theirs bodys were suitable with Hades and the Evil Star's soul of Garuda Specter. Each Specter is a human being choosed by the Evil Star and its surplice, when that person is possessed by that Specter's soul, there is a combination between the human being and the specter, to me it's a kind of symbiotic relation. I don't think a Saint can infiltrating in the Hades troop to became a major Specter like a Kyoto, maybe that was possible if he hidden his identity like Saga, Shura and Camus when take the Surplice of Ochs, Milz and Cube, but that was not the case of Suikyo. That could be true, but we'd have to assume that all the spectres are aware of what each other look like. Also, I find it very odd for a person to be linked to both a constellation and an Evil Star -- that implies that they're drawing cosmos from two different sources, which directly conflicts with the information Marin gave us early in the original series. Shun being Hades' body is not the same case because, ultimately, Shun is still only drawing cosmos from the Andromeda constellation, while Hades, as a god, is taking power from his own divine sources. |
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Silver Saint
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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2009, 01:14:33 PM » |
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That makes sense, but I still feel that there's a deeper meaning with Shion's new haircut. Hades having pale skin and red lipstick can be attributed as new vision, sure, because those features aren't as significant as Shion's hair being completely different. Well, like I said, if the visual change of Sion would have some reason, his partner, Dohko would have some visual difference too, since both is assumed that both was the same visual when the Holy War was ended and after that, when they are together and young again in the classic manga age. Again, I don't think Kurumada thought about that point too. That could be true, but we'd have to assume that all the spectres are aware of what each other look like.
Also, I find it very odd for a person to be linked to both a constellation and an Evil Star -- that implies that they're drawing cosmos from two different sources, which directly conflicts with the information Marin gave us early in the original series. Shun being Hades' body is not the same case because, ultimately, Shun is still only drawing cosmos from the Andromeda constellation, while Hades, as a god, is taking power from his own divine sources.
Well, if is showed that Sion and Dohko are under the bronze constallations and under gold constalltions, and if we attempt to fact that there is a lot of person under the same constallations (ex. Mu/Sion, Kanon/Saga...), there is no reason to think that each person has the potential to the "dark sides of force". A person can be a ordinary person with a non-awaked cosmo inside, or a good person who discovery what is his/her constallations, or that person can discover his/her potential in the other sources. For example, I am a guy who was born under Libra constallation, my sign is Libra, but that don't stop a other view about me, like I am the Pig sign in Chinese Zodiac and etc. Each person has potential to good side and evil side. There are a lot of factors behind that. If we assume that point, a Saint, a Specter, a Marina, a guy like Tohma who become an Angel, a ordinary person...are all the same case, but each one choose or it was choosen by a side. The constallations, Evil Star os other stuff don't determine the essence of each one, but the cosmos can be influencied by many possibilities of a human being. For example, Isaac was a Marina, but he was a strong candidate to Cygnus Saint, Kanon was linked to Gemini Cloth and Sea Dragon Scale, and the Saints revived by Hades power and they received Surplices. I don't think the case of Shun was different, even Julian Solo/Poseidon or, still, Erii/Eris, Hilda/Nibelung Ring, Saga and the mysterious cosmos inside him. Each one, with its life and cosmos take different ways according to the many possibilities of cosmos. A Evil Star is not so different of a Constallation, it's just the other side, even the chosen specter was born originally like ordinary human whose were born under some constallations, but that potencial was not awaked. A god take a body accordin some compatibility, like a Evil Star, a Marina Scale, a Cloth... What I mean is, the cosmo of each person is like his life, it's just the source of his own spirit, a person can awake that cosmo and follow different possibilities of his/her existence. For that reason I believe that Kagaho was Ikki, but in that occasion, that person awake to the dark side, to his Evil Star compatibility. But one person can have some traces of his human sense, like Rune and Charon who reconize what is good in Saints, or Gigant who believe in the promisse of eternal life like a ordinary person. Kagaho has memories of his brother too, and Suikyo know the he is Suikyo, the old Crateris Saint and Tenma's master. That was my opinion/thesis. (^^) |
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Silver Saint
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2009, 07:26:29 PM » |
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My main point is: there is no problem to a person to be connected to a constallation, all persons has a constallation, it's like the concept of all person has a zodiac sign, but that it is not contrary to the same person has another connections, if that person will follow the bad or good connection, that depends of many factors, like Isaac or Canon or Suikyo now. Sorry if I am repeating, but I thought that with some basis in some moments, I really think we can consider more than stated/expressed speeches.
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2009, 12:08:22 AM » |
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To be honest, I was kinda hoping that there was a test that Dohko and Shion had to take. It would make a great flashback.. of a flashback. Heh. That makes sense -- unless, of course, Suikyo really does go around screaming his Saint title any chance he gets. Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing Tenma's backstory clarified. There are a number of things strange about it. Masami style has always been shock first, explain later... So you got to wait for good flashbacks... |
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