Author Topic: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread  (Read 134219 times)

Kuriboh

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Because we end up falling in them on an hourly basis.

Anyways, the point of this thread is to hopefully compile a semi-comprehensive listing of all the REALLY BIG plotholes that can be found just about anywhere in this series, and, if possible, find logical explainations for them.

I shall begin.

This one isn't so much a plothole as an Anachronism, BUT.

In the Inferno chapter of Hades, Ikki flashes back several times to his meeting with Pandora. IN this flashback, Ikki appears to be 4 or 5, and Shun is still an infant. Now we know for a fact that only two years separates the brothers. So if Shun was really as old as he looks, Ikki would be three- barely old enough to make a complete sentence, let alone run away with an infant brother. If Ikki was as old as he looks, Shun would still be two or three-far too large to be carried like that.

Pandora states a bit later in that scene that the Holy War would start in about 10 Years, which puts Shun at 3 or 4 and Ikki at 5 or 6. Shun would STILL be too bit to be carried like an Infant, regardless if he was a runt or not.

What the hell. My head hurts when I think about this.



PLOTHOLES DISCUSSED.

Age Discrepancies (Bronzies, Athena, Shion, Ikki) - Lost Cause

Ikki's selective Omnipotence, Immortality and Deus Ex Machnism - Lost Cause

Cloths affecting strength/health of bearer - In Discussion

Shaka's Lineage - Possibly Solved (at least Covered)

Random hair colours - In Discussion
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 11:55:35 AM by Shaina »
Harem: Mu+Shaka+Aphrodite+Dohko+Kiki


Shaina [シャイナ]

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2007, 07:41:02 PM »
Yeah, that bugged me a lot, too - all this discrepancy between the ages and looks.

Remember Marin training Seiya? As Marin is 16 at TV episode 1, she was about 10 when she got Seiya to train. Well, and she looked exactly the same then as 6 years later...

Shura was 10 when he offed Aiolos - and somehow he didn't really look his age either.

Shainas Harem: Camus, DeathMask, Manigoldo + Dégel. Adopted: Shaina, Alberich, Hyoga, Jabu, Yato + Cassios.

Plantress

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2007, 07:58:57 PM »
Maybe earning a gold cloth automatically grant someone the body of an adult or something like that?  Considering this is St.S it's probably not that far fetched.

MY Harem Saints: Shun and Shura
Saints/Specters I share: Aiolos, Aldebaran, Rune, Nachi, Black Andromeda, Black Dragon, and Kagaho
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Kuriboh

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2007, 08:12:57 PM »
Assuming Kiki is 10, Mu would only have been 10 when he adopted him, Camus was no more than 14 when he started with his boys....

AND SOMEHOW THE BRONZIES ARE IN THEIR EARLY TEENS DESPITE MOST OF THEM LOOKING 20.
Harem: Mu+Shaka+Aphrodite+Dohko+Kiki


Shaina [シャイナ]

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2007, 08:19:00 PM »
Well, and there is one wild manga plot hole about the whole Bronzies as Kido Mitsumasa's children...

Athena is 13 (whoever believes that seeing her ...apples), and the oldest of the Bronzies (Ikki) is 15. But... Kido Mitsumasa got Athena 13 years ago, and he must have started producing those 100 orphans 16 years ago, and thus means he would have known three years earlier that he might need the boys. Or he was a promiscuous bastard just without a reason... XD
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 12:12:45 PM by Shaina [シャイナ] »

Shainas Harem: Camus, DeathMask, Manigoldo + Dégel. Adopted: Shaina, Alberich, Hyoga, Jabu, Yato + Cassios.

Kuriboh

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2007, 08:37:08 PM »
Or Ikki is the oldest of the lot and was, until the fateful trip to greece, the rightful heir to the foundation.
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Newborn [ニューボン]

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2007, 09:53:19 PM »
here's a few.

who gave seiya his cloth? evil saga?

shion lived until saga killed him? (more than 100 years?)

If Ares was shion's brother why didn't he have the two dots on his forehead?

Didn't any of the saints notice the "pope" wearing evil clothes?

Where did evil saga get all these ladies? *it was in one episode, he was sorounded by ladies XD)

did seiya take the cookies from the cookie jar? XD lol I made that one up ^^;

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Dragon Shiryu

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2007, 02:07:39 AM »
@Newborn:
- Saga gave Seiya his Pegasus cloth. It's supposed to have happened in one of his moments of sanity (he wasn't evil all the time, remember).
- The dots are a symbol between sensei and student. Shion->Mu->Kikki, most likely connected with their telekinetic powers.
- Saga wore 'evil clothes' since he announced Shion's death (a few years after the facts, after Seiya got his cloth) and himself (Arles) as his sucessor. This was anime only though. In the manga, he remains 'Shion'. Arles doesn't even exist.
- Yes, Seiya took the cookies... He ate them as well...

No explanation for the other questions that I'm aware of :) (Shion being a hundred is a good one...).

@everyone else:
The age-thing has same serious flaws, no doubt about it. Specifically the fact that Ikki is older then Saori... So he was 5 at the time Kiddo found Saori... Strange.

Some more errors (not real plotholes):
* Attacks that do not have the desired effect:
                    - Camus' ice coffin that couldn't even be broken by the combined efforts of all Gold Saints gets shattered multiple times. Like when                      Minos destroyed Hyoga's variation of the technique (the wall), which Hyoga specifically stated to be as strong as Camus' attack.
                    - Milo's Antares that's supposed to kill everything, but never truly does (pe. Hyoga survives).

* Shura having the excalibur in the Hades-chapter... It was Athena's blessing, so how could Hades recreate (and effectively copy) the sword? Shiryu still had his version of the sword, so...

* Anime only: In the Poseidon chapter, Ikki recognizes the Galaxian Explosion performed by Kanon as one of Saga's attacks. However, in the anime, Saga never performed this attack in the Sanctuary chapter...

* Manga only: how can it be that Ikki clearly IS immortal? He gets completely destroyed by Saga's Galaxian Explosion (to the point of his body being desintegrated) but returns later on (Poseidon chapter), unharmed.

* How come the Phoenix cloth evolves in the inferno chapter? It isn't touched by divine blood or anything. Is it explained why Ikki (upon his appearance in hell) has a new stole?

* If a cloth serves the purpose of amplifying the bearer's cosmo, why do certain saints (pe. Shiryu, Shun, ...) have to remove it in order to perform their strongest attack (or make the attack stronger at least)? This is shown in the last battle between Rhadamanthys and Kanon, where the second removes his cloth and isn't capable of evading the Wyvern's Greatest Caution (which he blocked some time before using only one hand...).

Not really plot holes, i know, but i thought i should mention them :).

Kuriboh

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2007, 05:17:35 AM »
RE: SHION

Shion would be pushing 300 actually. I think we can attribute his age to either Athenas will, A similar (Similar, mind you) gift as Roshis, OR the theory that Shion Mu and Kiki are of a different race altogether (hence the dots) and they just naturally live a long long time.


RE: ATTACKS.

Even after all of Camus' ranting that not even all the Goldies could break it, Shiryu didn't have that hard of a time with it.
As for Excalibur, perhaps Hades granted his own version of it?


RE: IKKI AND HIS NOT-DYING-NESS AND HIS MAGICAL CLOTH OF NATURAL MAGICAL EVOLUTION.

Normally, I'd chalk it up to the cloth, but MAN he must be doing the Reaper some "favours" to keep going like that. But it seems to me that the Phoenix Cloth is a mystery in itself. For one thing, it doesn't seem to bust as easily as the other four. Perhaps it will be explained later.

RE: THE CLOTHS COMING OFF.

It seems to me that the Gold Saints are much more reliant on their cloths for additional strength. Kanon is a good example of this. Others include Saga, who killed himself after sending his cloth away, and Deathmask, who got his ass kicked when Cancer abandoned him.

The Bronzies seem to be the reverse of this, as whenever a peice of their cloths come off, THEY GET BETTER. (See: Shriyu and  his shirts)




New Plotholes to Address:

In the first few episodes, it's mentioned that that no serious damage can be afflicted on a Saint wearing his cloth. This gets disproven within 10 episodes. Discuss.
Harem: Mu+Shaka+Aphrodite+Dohko+Kiki


Shaka

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2007, 11:21:03 AM »
 :shaka: well, all the ages in the series are totally messed up. reading from the bios some of the saints should be way older than they are shown.

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KnightSkyeメガン

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2007, 01:42:28 PM »
Yeah, the age thing always bothered me.  When I first saw the anime, I thought all of the Bronzes were at least 16.  Twenty at the most.

Another thing, and Shaka you made me think of this, when you read all the bios, something's a little off.  Take Shaka.  Wasn't he born in India?  Shouldn't he be like . . . dark?  Instead he's lily-white, blond, and green eyed.  Now, I've heard somewhere that he was of British anscetry, so maybe that's it.  Then there's Marin.  I don't think there are a whole lot of red head Japanese women, at least not natural reds.

Shaina [シャイナ]

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2007, 02:16:05 PM »
Well, if you talk about that - I haven't seen many green haired Italians either... XD

Shainas Harem: Camus, DeathMask, Manigoldo + Dégel. Adopted: Shaina, Alberich, Hyoga, Jabu, Yato + Cassios.

Kuriboh

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2007, 04:43:02 PM »
Yeah, the age thing always bothered me.  When I first saw the anime, I thought all of the Bronzes were at least 16.  Twenty at the most.

Another thing, and Shaka you made me think of this, when you read all the bios, something's a little off.  Take Shaka.  Wasn't he born in India?  Shouldn't he be like . . . dark?  Instead he's lily-white, blond, and green eyed.  Now, I've heard somewhere that he was of British anscetry, so maybe that's it.  Then there's Marin.  I don't think there are a whole lot of red head Japanese women, at least not natural reds.

Personally, I accept the Brit-Born-In-India theory, as it does make sense. Another option to that would be Albinism, but that's far less credible. As for Marin, Red-heads are not unknown in Japan, though not particularly common, either. Seika's also in the clear as far as hair goes, as  I've seen asian people with light-brown hair.
Harem: Mu+Shaka+Aphrodite+Dohko+Kiki


Ghaidin

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2007, 05:11:09 PM »
I would like to add another one. Over and over Seiya gets the whole "but he's not Greek!" "and he wants to --gasp-- take the cloth away from Greece!"

And then a bunch of their saints (even gold saints) are non-Greek. Plus Camus goes to Siberia whenever he pleases, Dohko lives off in Rozan, Mu isn't there either... not to mention all the training camps that are off-site.

I can concede the others were still keeping close ties with Sanctuary in some cases, while maybe Seiya had mentioned he was just going to take off and never look back. Still, the non-Greek bit stands. For all we know, the last Kyoko (Shion) might not even have been Greek either!

Am I missing something?

KnightSkyeメガン

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Re: The Official Hugemongous Plothole List and Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2007, 07:38:05 PM »
@ Shaina:  To the best of my knowledge, there aren't any blue-haired Frenchman either.  *points*   :camus:   :P

@ Kuriboh:  Well, that was what I meant.  I know there are some, but not a whole lot.  To tell the truth, Marin looks like she's Irish to me.

@ Ghaidin: I don't think Shion was Greek.  And I think that Shaina made that up to have a reason to complain.